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FAQ for Distillation
A complete list of distillation
products
The questions asked here are typical of
those we receive at White Labs. We hope our answers are helpful to you. Use your browser's search
function to find keywords that are associated with your
question. If you have a different question, please email us.
Special thanks for much of this information
is owed to Clayton Cone, retired from Lallemand and friend of
distillers all around the world.
Bourbon
Tennessee Whiskey Yeast
Measuring the sugar content
Roller mill vs. hammer mill
EDV493
-Dosage rate
-Low temperatures
-Dosage rate (rum related)
Wastewater
Potatoes
Rum
-Aging rum
-Blackstrap?
Vodka
-Vodka yeast?
Samples?
Re: Bourbon
Q: I would like to make bourbon. What products would you
recommend?
A: For those seeking to go “higher end,” we would suggest
that you try WLP028 Ediburgh Scottish Ale Yeast & WLP050
Tennessee Whisky Yeast.
Re: WLP050 Tennessee Whisky Yeast (dosage rate example)
Q: I'm working on some test batches of
whiskey and would like to try some of the WLP050 Tennessee Whisky
Yeast. Our mash capacity is 1000 liters, and I typically use 200
gallons of water and 350 lbs of grain/malt. How much of the WLP050
would I need to do two of these batches?
A: For our WLP050 Tennessee Whisky liquid
yeast, there are several options:
1) 8 liters of yeast to achieve the same pitching rate as the
2-500 gram packs; this would achieve the same fermentation speed.
2) Our brewery size 10HL pitchable batch. This is more
economical, but will ferment 2-3 days longer than option number 1
3) 1-2 liters of yeast into 100 liters for 1-2 days, then top up
to 1000 liters.
Re: Measuring the sugar content
Q: Brewers typically measure the amount of sugar with a
hydrometer, however they are making the measurement after sacchrification and with the solids removed. What is the best way to
measure the sugar content of the mash post liquefication? At this
point it's still starch (or at least not fully reduced to simple
sugar like it will be post sacchrification).
A: The professionals use HPLC because they must have exact data.
You can come close to estimating expected alcohol yields, from the
liquefied starch, by using a Brix hydrometer:
Brix X 0.5 = % alcohol ABV (close) or Brix divided by 2 = % alcohol.
Re: Roller mill vs. Hammer mill
Q: Most brewers use a roller mill to crush their grain. The Alcohol
Textbook suggests distillers are more likely to use a hammer
mill, and specifies a typical level of milling (using a sieve test).
Do you have any idea on how much yield we may lose if we use a
roller mill and don't achieve as fine a grind as we could with a
hammer mill? I'm trying to find the trade off between buying a more
expensive mill or paying someone to mill the grain and using a
roller milling process.
A: The loss in yield with Hammer mill vs. Roller mill is a tough
one. 100% liquefaction depends on particle size, temperature, time,
and pH control. If the particle sizes are a little larger than
recommended sieve sizes, you may be able to overcome the problem by
extending the liquefaction time and perhaps use more vigorous
agitation such as a lightning mixer with shearing blades.
Re: EDV493
Q: What is the alcohol tolerance and pitching rate for EDV493?
A: The alcohol tolerance is @ 20% and the dosage rate is 25-50G
per hectoliter.
Re: EDV493 (dosage rate)
Q: My EDV493 instructions are in French and I would like to
clarify the dosage rate. It indicates 50-100g/HL.
A: 1HL = 26.417 US gallons. As such, it would be 50-100g per @
26.5 gallons.
You want a good strong fermentation so you should go on the
higher side. EG for 250 gallons, @1000g+. There is a high range due
to the varying aspects of the fermentation process (ingredients,
sugar content, fermentation temp, etc). You cannot really have too
much yeast for distilling.
Re: EDV493 at low temps (rum related)
Q: I am making rum with EDV493 for the
first time. I am concerned about the temperature: the room where I
will have it in is about 60F, which is considerably low considering
the recommendations. What effect will this have and what suggestions
can you offer?
A: This will cause a slower
fermentation. You should definitely pitch at a higher rate:
2-2.5 lbs.
Re: EDV493 Dosage rate (rum example)
Q: I am doing my first rum with EDV493
and would like some advice regarding dosage rate. I have 100 gallons
of molasses and 700 gallons of water. How much yeast should I use?
A: 1-2 lbs per 1000 gallons. Always error
on the side of caution and go with more. In this case, 2 lbs
initially; as you do more batches; you may adjust as you find what
works best.
Re: Wastewater
Q: I am searching for a data sheet on the chemical composition of
your potato starch and any other by-products that might be in it.
This information would be helpful in determining what sort of waste
we would be producing after converting the starch in sugar and then
alcohol. We need to get this information to the wastewater treatment
facility to see if we need to do anything special to it before
sending it to them.
A: I do not see any potential problems for the wastewater side.
If you would be using fermentation and then distillation, I would
understand that during the fermentation most of the starch would be
broken down during the process.
Protein, ash, and other residuals are of such small amounts that
there should be no effect on a waste stream. Phosphate will not be
an issue; the groups are bound to the glucose units and will burn
off as energy.
Just as a side note, our food grade starch has a chloride
residual of <0.05%. This is generally less than some city tap
water. I mention this only so that you are aware for your
fermentation yeasts or enzymes. I do not have any information on
effects at that level.
{Information courtesy of Michael Willard, chemist}
Re: Potatoes
Q: I am very close to starting a distillery and we are interested
in using potato starch rather than whole potatoes, which will be
beneficial in several ways. As I was doing research on what effect
our effluent from the distillery will have on the local sewer
system, I realized that I should at least ask if the small amount of
chloride that you mentioned (0.05%) would have any negative impact
on either the starch conversion or the fermentation. Please let me
know if you see any potential problems there, as we will have to
alter our business plan significantly if we have to use whole
potatoes.
A: Here is some additional
info
rmation: Your starch contains <0.05% chlorides, which is 500 ppm
chlorides and 330 ppm sodium. 500 ppm sodium begins to seriously
inhibit yeast growth and fermentation, even stopping the
fermentation before completion.
When you dilute the starch with several parts water, the ppm of
sodium will be reduced. It should then be in a safe range.
Distilleries that ferment potatoes always have to take the
sodium level into consideration. It can become a problem when the
stillage from the previous distillation is used as backset for the
next fermentation. The concentration of sodium can build up with
each successive backset.
We are not aware of any problems that sodium can have on the
enzyme reaction. Usually calcium is required to stabilize the enzyme
during the mashing. The instructions from the supplier should
mention calcium if it is required.
There are practically no nutrients available in starch for the
yeast to grow and metabolize properly. You will need lots of a well
balanced nutrient (Fermaid K, which White Labs can provide) plus
DAP.
There may not be enough buffering material in starch to maintain
proper pH. For the first trials, you should monitor the pH during
the first 12- 24 hours to note if the pH drops <3.0. Use
potassium carbonate to readjust the pH if required.
Re: Rum
Q: You said Edv-493 was “developed” for rum. What about that
strain is good for rum cogeners?
A: The EDV-493 strain was isolated from a rum factory in
Guadeloupe
, one of the French Isles in the
Caribbean
. It was tested against several other isolates from that region and
several others from our own yeast collection. It produced slightly
more alcohol from a given amount of molasses. It proved to be a
hardier yeast against the natural flora of wild yeast and spoilage
bacteria associated with the non-sterile conditions often found in
distilleries in tropical
Islands
. More important, it produced congeners that were typical of and
desired by the rum producer in the French Isles.
There are several of our strains of yeast that will produce an
excellent Rum, each with a slightly different taste and aroma
profile. I would suggest that you evaluate EDV-493 first.
Re: Aging Rum
Q: What has been your experience with aging rum in charred
barrels?
I got a sample of black strap and it seemed pretty harsh . Would
you use a smaller proportion of the black strap for flavor cogeners,
similar to using peated malt for whisky?
A: Black strap molasses produces a Rum that has an underlying
flavor that is distinct from Rum produced from cane juice and
refined cane molasses. Some Rum distilleries use only blackstrap
while others use only cane juice. Each distillery has its own
distinct character. You should try fermenting and distilling each
separately and blend to your taste.
Barrel aging is a craft in itself:
Bourbon aged American oak is usually used. Occasionally, a sherry
aged barrel will be used for blending. Some prefer French oak.
First, second and third Rum age cycle barrels are used.
First aging barrels can be overwhelming. With each recycled barrel
the longer the ageing.
White Rum can be aged in a covered stainless steel drum with a
small opening. Trickle a small stream of air through the white Rum
for up to 1 year. A small aquarium pump and air distributor system
can be used. This removes unpleasant esters. This is what we do with
some Tequila.
Aging temperature greatly effects aging time.
You have the opportunity to be very creative at the barrel aging
stage.
Re: Blackstrap?
Q: Does your personal preference lie in the black strap or the
cane?
A: Rum from blackstrap has an undertone that comes from the
repeated, excessive cooking of the juice to extract the sugar. It is
a special organic chemical that I cannot recall the name of. I
really have no preference. You can taste for yourself. Rum made from
cane juice has “Rhum Agricole” on the label. These are the Rums
from Martinique and
Guadeloupe
. Most of the other Rums are from Blackstrap.
Originally all Rum was made from Blackstrap molasses because the
primary and more valuable product was sugar. Blackstrap was just a
cheap waste product that had to be disposed of. With the change in
the sugar market and different country's price or lack of price
support there was no outlet for sugar in some of the islands. So the
sugar extraction stage was discontinued, and the fresh-squeezed cane
juice was directed directly to the fermentors.
Needless to say, Blackstrap molasses is very low in bacteria because
of the heating and osmotic pressure while cane juice is very high in
bacteria because there is no heat applied at any stage until it goes
to the still. As a result, there are a lot of congeners coming from
bacteria in cane juice fermentation. There is always a struggle at
the distillery to maintain the right balance of infection to produce
the congeners without stopping the fermentation due to the
infection. Some cane molasses rum producers add lactic and acetic
acid bacteria at a certain time of the fermentation to produce these
congeners.
Re: Vodka
Q: We are going to do a sugar mash for vodka.
As a corn mash will supply nutrients for the Superstart
yeast, I need to know what nutrients you would suggest for this new
mashing process.
A: As you know, sucrose contains zero nutrients for the yeast and
zero buffering material and zero particulate matter. All three have
to be taken into consideration.
25 pounds of sugar + 15 gallons of water = 16.9 brix.
25 pounds of sugar in water to equal 15 gallons = 17.9 brix.
That is a good brix range to start.
With experience, you should be able to start with an initial
brix of 20 to 24 or start with an initial brix of 18 and add sugar
near the end to the equivalent of 24 brix (14% ABW).
Since there is no buffering material present in the sugar
solution, the pH will drop from an initial pH of about 5.0 down to
as low as 2.7. This low pH will stress the yeast and it may never
recover. Therefore you should add about 1 # of Potassium
carbonate/1000 gallons of mash before the 12th hour. This should
keep the pH about 3.3.
Superstart will supply a substantial amount of the nutrients that
the yeast require. An additional 2# Fermaid K plus 2 - 4 #
Diammonium phosphate / 1000 gallon will be required.
-Add the Superstart and Fermaid K at the beginning of the
fermentation along with the yeast.
-Divide the DAP into two portions and add in increments: 24 and
48 hours.
-Stir and aerate several times during the first 48 hours and
again near the end of the fermentation.
Since there is no particulate matter in the sugar solution,
the yeast will tend to settle. The
yeast need the oxygen to breath during the growth phase to produce
the lipids necessary to protect the cell walls from the alcohol
toxicity near the end of the fermentation.
Re: Vodka yeast suggestions
Q: I am starting an artisan distillery. I will be distilling a
Vodka product; the base material will be 2/3 honey and 1/3 dextrose.
I am looking for a yeast which can give me as high a level of
alcohol as possible.
A: The best yeast we offer for this situation would be the Danstil
EDV46 dry distillers yeast: high alcohol, quick and will flocculate.
Also, you can expect to attain good aroma/flavor profile.
Re: More vodka yeast questions
Q: What type of yeast would you recommend to use so that we may
ferment mash within an open or non-airtight vessel?
Our final product will be Vodka. I have some dairy tanks that
I would like to use for this if possible.
A: All the distilling products that White Labs offers in its
lineup would work fine in an open tank, for example Superstart. For
more yeast flavor, I would recommend the Lallemand strains: Danstil
EDV46 being the best for vodka distillation.
Re: Samples
Q: Do you offer samples of your yeast for free?
A: No; unfortunately we do not offer sample trials.
Re: DAP production
Q: How is diammonium phosphate made, or where does it come
from? Why does diammonium phosphate cause yeast to grow so well?
A: An over simplification of DAP production:
Phosphate is mined in one of the sodium phosphate forms. The
sodium is replaced with ammonia through a series of steps. Phosphate
is required in all life forms as an energy source in its metabolic
process, usually in the form of ADP and ATP. All life form requires
nitrogen as a building block for protein, DNA and RNA production.
Nitrogen is the nucleus of these three.
Most animal life require nitrogen in the form of amino acids
(produced by protein digestion in the stomach). Yeast has the unique
ability to use both amino acids and the nitrogen present in ammonia
(raw ammonia gas, ammonium hydroxide and ammonium salts-DAP
diammonium phosphate.)
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